Questions to Master Deshimaru

Question

What is the difference between subconscious and unconscious?

Answer

In Buddhism there are six forms of consciousness: alaya, manas and so forth. Manas consciousness corresponds more or less to Jung's collective unconscious. But Jung did not practice zazen so he did not know hishiryo consciousness. From his own experience all he knew was the consciousness of the forebrain and maybe something of the primitive brain, so he was not able to get very far. He was unable to practice a true meditation and could study other kinds only as objects. And in the end, it all turned into nothing but thoughts. Rinzai Zen and the collective unconscious have a good deal in common. Nietzsche went mad. Van Gogh .... . They were looking too hard for purity, the absolute, God, true truth, and in the end they went mad. The same thing can happen by concentrating too hard on koans in Rinzai, except that there you have a master who guides you and keeps you from making mistakes. If you have a true master to guide you, you can understand, and wake up. The master says to the disciple, "leave this room! No, no, not by the door!" So the disciple turns to the window. "No, not by the window!" "Then where?" "Just leave!" You cannot leave through this exit or through that, not by the summit or by the base, not by the south or by the west. And so the master awakens the disciple's understanding. But with philosophy it is very difficult. Sometimes philosophers go mad in the end because they use only their forebrain. But we can also think with the body, think infinitely... But you must not make categories! It is written in the Shodoka that it is not necessary to seek truth or sever illusions. I am always saying during zazen, "Do not run after anything and do not run away from illusions." It is not necessary to say to oneself "I must not think," because that's still thinking. You must be natural, let the subconscious arise... But one time, you have to let go, let yourself drop completely, as though to the bottom of the sea, then rise to the surface again and float. Neurotic people are always anxious. They're like somebody who doesn't know how to swim and falls into the water. They start to sink, become frightened and say, "I must not sink, I must not sink," they swallow more and more water and in the end they drown. But if they let go of their thoughts and let themselves go down to the bottom, their body will come back to the surface naturally . . . That's Zen. If you are in pain during zazen you must continue, keep straight, to the end. If you are in pain you can abandon your ego and experience satori unconsciously, naturally, automatically.