Questions to Master Deshimaru

Question

What is meant by Heaven and Hell?

Answer

Read Dante, or the Christian Bible. It's the same in Buddhism. But I turn the question back to you because I cannot decide. In Zen we must create heaven here and now, not hell. It is we who make heaven or hell in our mind. When I was a child my mother used to tell me, "If you're bad you'll go to hell. If you're good you'll go to heaven." Then I was afraid but when I grew up I said to myself, "I'll go to hell; people must have more freedom there. I'll become the devil's friend," or, "If I go to heaven with Buddha I'll be forever having arguments with my mother and I won't have any freedom at all." When I was about fifteen or sixteen, I was always arguing with my mother and I had absolutely no desire to go to heaven. Later, I asked my master Kodo Sawaki that question. In those days I was a student, and because I had studied science and logic I no longer believed in either place. Kodo Sawaki taught me that heaven and hell grew in our mind. We cannot decide whether they exist or not. Nobody has come back. Once people are in their coffins they don't come back to tell us. But here and now, it is our mind that makes hell and heaven. Master Dogen wrote very deeply on the subject. We must create heaven here and now. If we suffer, if we doubt, everything can become hell. We must build heaven. If our mind is at peace, the atmosphere around us becomes heaven. But some people create the devil and hell instead!