Questions to Master Deshimaru

Question

But we exist whether we think or not. Both are important. Which comes first?

Answer

If we are not thinking we exist eternally because then consciousness is boundless, eternal. It goes on all the way to God, Buddha, the cosmos, truth. Once the ego has disappeared there is no more duality. As soon as there is myself and others, that is duality. When there is no more me there are no more others; there is interdependence. That is nonthought. You should not restrict your thinking with words and phrases. When you create your own categories the words do not fit. Westerners are always using their vocabulary to create categories, and sometimes what they come up with are contradictions. In language, there are always two. If I say, "What's that?" the only word is, "That is that." If I say "What's that?" and you say, "It's a kyosaku, " it would be just as true to say, "It's a piece of wood." "It's oak" would also be right. Zen discussions are always like that. One monk says, "The flame is moving." The next says, "No, it's not the flame, it's the air that's moving." The third, who is cleverer than the other two, says, "No, it's neither the flame nor the wind, it's your mind that's moving." And in the end the fourth person says, "It is neither the wind nor the flame nor your mind." You must understand why others are not you. If I cannot do it I cannot explain it. I am not other people. I am what I am. I am myself. It's not necessary to follow the others. There are many meanings. "I am me." "It's not necessary to follow the others." I have to decide by myself. I must do what I do myself. Others are not me, it's true, but it is also true that my mind and your mind have the same substance. I am like the sky and the earth. When you let go of everything, you become others. That is abandoning the ego. Don't get it wrong. That is the koan of Master Dogen's mushrooms.